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Janny Wurts Chat Area: Arc 1: Curse of the Mistwraith: Curse of the Mistwraith: Random Questions...
   By Hellcat on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 12:05 pm: Edit Post

I'm beginning the re-read. Though I keep on wanting to come onto the board and read Janny's posts to refresh my mind with more info...

So couple of questions to Janny... when she gets back and has finished with the hurricane season.... (with apologies if these have been asked before.)

1) Did Lysaer's father have the gift of justice? If not how did it pass to Lysaer (my assumption here is that the gift is passed by genetic inheritance)

2) Did the F7 realise when they rendered Davien discorporate that it would unleash the Curse of Mearth? And why was the Five Centuries Fountain protected in the first place?


   By Janny Wurts on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 04:58 pm: Edit Post

Hellcat --

You Asked.

I think I answered in depth, concerning the royal gifts - they are not linear in this fashion:

Due to the way they are transferred (a tale in itself) the gift will be "spread" between all direct descendents of the first forbear who swore oath to the Fellowship. It will not "pass" in equal measure: but like water flowing downslope, will "choose" the easiest route. Descendents with a natural tendency toward this trait in their character will "inherit" more of the gift than ones who naturally bend in another direction.

Further: the more descendents there are to "spread" the gift through, the less defined the inheritance...in some, it will be more pronounced, in others, not prominent at all.

Where there is only "one" descendent, the gift will fall to that one, and be expressed with virulently full force, no question.

This is why the line of descent varies, and why the Fellowship name the successor of ROYAL LINES always, without exception. Caithdeinen are Fellowship Named only in times when the royal line could fall into jeopardy and crown rule might fall to the shadow behind the throne. (see passage referring to that in Fugitive Prince when Jeynsa is named to succeed Jieret).

The royal gifts do NOT transfer to caithdeinen in case of failure of a lineage.

Therefore the degree to which a royal gift expresses is twofold: inherited potency (how many descendents there are who could "carry" the trait) added to personal CHOICE and CHARACTER: how is each individual inclined toward that gift in the first place.

In case of one descendent, but a character not inclined - you would see the gift express, but you would see the one in descended lineage at odds with its drive....there would be internal conflict with that gift....not a good situation.

In Arithon's case: his character is in accord with the gift, AND the gift, unstoppable as he is the only one living bearing the lineage.

In the case of Lysaer's father: given the man's extreme hatred, and the longterm erosion of his character in the course of a truly (you have no idea) BITTER feud: the gift of s'Ilessid justice WAS at play, or Arithon would have died in a messy way, rather than have been sent through the Gate as exile.

On your second question concerning Davien's being rendered discorporate: not much has been said about this. Many of you have "jumped to conclusions" as to the why and the wherefore of what happened. Davien WAS rendered discorporate by his colleagues...this was not done as "punishment" as many of you have supposed. Alot (ALOT!!) more was at play, and, at stake at the time....and it will unfold in due course. It's too wrapped up in what you see as the enigma behind Davien himself....and beware what you suppose in this case. Every speculation I have ever seen from readers, in Davien's case, has been wrong...colored by what you "suppose" the reasons to have been.

To explain why the Five Centuries' Fountain was guarded would give away too much - suffice to say this: the Fountain was a test of sorts.

The escape of the shadows happened at the time of Davien's being rendered discorporate. The six Sorcerers did not know it would happen.

More I cannot say - it will unfold in due time. You will see more of Davien, and will BEGIN to unwind the very first strand of his motivations in Traitor's Knot.

There will be MORE....I don't expect this subject to quiet down until said is done, and Arc 5 is fully complete.

   By Konran on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 05:33 pm: Edit Post

"... this was not done as "punishment" as many of you have supposed."

Oooh, interesting. Is it possible that, just like he went into exile of his own will, he ASKED to be rendered discorporate, for whatever reason? (guilt, diabolical master plan, for the hell of it) ... maybe a Sorcerer couldn't render himself discorporate and has to have help? ... I'm probably way off here... *imagines Janny crying tears of laughter onto her keyboard and shorting it out from all our harebrained theories*

   By Konran on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 05:36 pm: Edit Post

... and another thing...

"the SIX Sorcerers did not know it would happen" (shadows of Mearth)

... does that mean Davien DID know they'd be freed?

   By Kam on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 04:18 am: Edit Post

So Arithon gets a double dose of compassion? That can't be healthy for a guy.

Meanwhile, my mind is reeling from what Janny has just revealed... I, I shamefully admit, assumed that Davien was punished (and was probably rather miffed about it)

Yeah, I agree with Konran! Janny? Any answers? :D


   By Konran on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 10:17 am: Edit Post

I think we all just naturally went from "He did a bad thing" to "He got punished for it". Another thing I was thinking about. Someone pointed out that Janny makes a point of mentioning his ring every time he shows up. Something about that ring's been bothering me. Maybe the ring has something to do with his "It's a bird! It's a ghost! No, it's a Sorceror!" trick.

   By Vicki C on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 11:08 am: Edit Post

I think I assumed that it was a punishment more from the comments and asides that other (ie not F7) characters have mentioned. Janny, is it right that the 'common man' had the same view of Davien's rendering as we did?

   By Janny Wurts on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 08:38 pm: Edit Post

Traitor's Knot will give you all a little more insight...as this thread deepens and broadens.

"Answers" at this point would but definitely be spoilers.

Vicki C - regarding your question - I can't really answer unless I can understand your parameters: define what you mean by "common man" - at this point in Athera's history, each faction of mankind will lean toward a different viewpoint - radically biased in accord with what they hold in belief.

   By Leo James on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 10:30 am: Edit Post

Would I be right in thinking that Davien as discorporate would be unable to open the Rockfell pit and as he released the last contents (Iyats - I think) it could have been an attempt to make a repeat performance difficult.

   By Konran on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 12:13 pm: Edit Post

If I'm correct, Davien as corporate wouldn't be able to open Rockfell either. Doesn't it take one corporate and one discorporate Sorcerer to do the job?

   By Vicki C on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 12:59 pm: Edit Post

Hmm, sorry Janny. I guess my assumption was that all thought that he had been rendered discorporate as a punishment, but that the differing factions disagreed as to whether his act needed punishment or not.
In trying to remember back to where I picked this impression up from, I can't think of a single quote. It's a fabric of various comments and they have come from Koriani, Town, Clan and Arithon himself, I think.
Personally, I'd be most interested to know what the clans feel happened; what they think the reasoning for his changed state-of-being was.
*sigh* I guess I really should just wait for the book itself!

   By Janny Wurts on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 08:04 pm: Edit Post

Vicki - the clans' attitude toward Davien was quite vividly displayed by Hewall and the scout escorting Arithon through the Mathorns in Peril's Gate - when they encounter Davien, they display open distrust and enmity, and but definitely don't want him in Arithon's proximity - this bias would be due to left over rancor from the uprising and the death of the High Kings, and the upset of old law, which has demonstrably left the clans hanging on - out on a limb and persecuted, in a struggle to survive.

They'd feel the Sorcerer's state was "deserved justice" and probably not look any deeper into the matter. If you think you saw a Fellowship Sorcerer say "punishment" - look again....it didn't happen. Bias would have been read "into" their very specifically noncommital statements....one needs to look at the words on the page most closely, and without coloring them with presuppositions.

This series is all about overturning presuppositions - the readers' and the characters. So don't feel dumb if you get the whiplash - it's part and parcel of how this story rips off the layers of presupposition. Understanding means wearing the shoe on the other foot - and that means, changing the angle of view in opposition.

   By skeoke on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 02:37 pm: Edit Post

Was Davien dis-corporated to protect him from the High Kings' (heirs) justice?

{Popped into my head last night while I wasn't sleeping.}

   By Michael Pearson on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 06:57 am: Edit Post

If Davien was rendered discorporate by the rest of the F7, doesn't he had to request or at least agree to it, because of the Law of the Major Balance.

   By Neil on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 07:54 am: Edit Post


I would imagine that an F7 with all his faculties intact could avoid all but the most troublesome of humans...but then who knows what a high king could do with his jewels if he chose?

I guess that when Davien was rendered discorporate, the high kings were no longer in control so it's a mute point perhaps...

Nice idea though and we know that F7 don't want Arithon aware of his crown jewels fucntions...curious that a masterbard law would not encompass this kind of knowledge? Maybe the royal jewels are a well kept secret.


I would guess that the F7 were obliged by compact or drake binding to limit Davien in some way...it does not seem to have worked though since he has an ambiguous corporate status for the moment...but maybe he, too, cannot go anywhere near grimwards or pass certain wards/gates? For that he needs Arithon?

   By Andy on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 08:40 am: Edit Post

Maybe he consented to being rendered discorporate for reasons we do not yet understand.


   By neil on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 09:21 am: Edit Post

Maybe, but Davien dislikes the state "intensely" and this change seems to have been a frustrating challenge for him. So I'd guess it was not his choice.

2.25 arcs to go yet ;-)

   By Hannah on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 09:30 pm: Edit Post

we know that F7 don't want Arithon aware of his crown jewels fucntions...curious that a masterbard law would not encompass this kind of knowledge? Maybe the royal jewels are a well kept secret.

I know that I've pulled a seriously long shift today, and am more-than-slightly giddy at the impending weekend, but... I giggled a lot harder and longer at this than I should have. I'm a dork, I know.


   By Trys on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 07:37 am: Edit Post

LOL Hannah!! I completed missed that when I read it.

   By Neil on Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 12:05 pm: Edit Post

I now wonder why the sovreignty of athera passed to mankind from the paravians? Does a high king imply a low king (or would this be an earl?)

We know the paravian presence is a lot for humankind to endure but are they insufficiently numerous or unable look after Athera themselves...are they kind of "retired" from redeeming drakespawn? No kings anymore? Were the parvians kings all killed?!? Have more the responsibilies passed to mankind/F7 than at first appears?

Both paravians and human appear to have failed to control the meth-snakes...

   By Tygrr on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 03:13 am: Edit Post

Janny - What were the names of all the towers at Ithamon? I can't seem to find them...

   By Janny Wurts on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 10:30 am: Edit Post

Tygrr - You Asked.

The Compass Points, or Sun Towers are as follows:

North, Alathwyr, white with alabaster combing, its binding quality being Wisdom.

East - Dunlaithe - black granite and obsidian, with a black tourmaline finial, its binding quality being endurance, or the Paravian concept of Honor.

South - Lilaere - rose quartz, its binding quality, Grace

West, Kieling, green jasper, its binding quality, compassion.

The fifth tower, at the city's height, was Daelthain, the King's Tower, its binding power being Justice (and so, Law) - this one at the time of the story is fallen to its foundation.

Curiosity: why this detail??

And - perhaps for a shake of a lamb's tail, the mighty Gryphon could add this listing to FAQ??? The passage in Mistwraith that lists them is partial.

   By Trys on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 01:14 pm: Edit Post

Added to the Athera FAQ.

   By Tygrr on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 11:49 pm: Edit Post

I was just curious, having recently done a reread and only finding the names of Alathwyr, Kieling and Daelthain...it made me wonder what beautiful names the others had as well! Thank you Janny for answering my question!!!

   By Brian Uri! on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 06:23 am: Edit Post

Added to the Wiki as well. Thanks :-)


   By Janny Wurts on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 10:53 am: Edit Post

Thanks, Gryphon and Brian!

   By Annette on Saturday, January 15, 2011 - 12:12 am: Edit Post

Just a random question that I have been wondering about, something Janny might answer. When Elaira was on second lane watch duty at the old earl's court, how did she see Asandir and Dakar in front of the West Gate? It seems despite what it says in my 3 versions of Curse of the Mistwraith, that Avenor and the West Gate are on the first lane, not the second. Can the enchantress's scry across the lines of latitude? Or could Elaira somehow track where Asandir was because he had passed through the second lane on her previous watch duty. There does not seem to be a body of water near the West Gate Elaira could have used to see them, so each time I re-read the first book I wonder how Elaira managed this.

I have actually ordered the current edition of Curse of the Mistwraith, just to check if anything was updated.

   By Janny Wurts on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 01:03 pm: Edit Post

Annette - there is a major cross latitude channel that runs from Avenor through Althain Tower thru the standing stone at Tal's Crossing. A crossing at the gate would have affected this; I can see, based on your question (argh! grin) that an ENERGETIC map of Athera will one day become necessary.

Let me mull on this; as the fourth arc opens the staging for the mysteries, it may well be a timely thought...

   By Annette on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 06:05 pm: Edit Post

Thanks for the reply Janny, I would love an energetic map one day. I was trying to work one out from the clues in the books, but there are still a few too many mysteries about how it all works, what goes where and how some can interact with the network. It gives me something to do while re-reading the books though, and I scanned one of the maps to play with while waiting for the next book.

Does the third lane really go through Cildorn? Or was it meant to be the fourth?

   By Jeff on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 12:29 am: Edit Post

Annette, thanks for the question and Janny for the response.

I've been wondering about the connections between lanes and trying to figure some out from the details in the books and the standing stones on the map. I get the impression that the curvature of the planet is allowed for in the placement of details on the map.

An energetic map would be wonderful, particularly one that covers the whole planet; well I guess the whole planet would have to wait until sometime in Arc 5 lest it give away the location of a certain Paravian caretaker and his/her charge...

   By Annette on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 02:16 am: Edit Post

I started out with the curvature of the planet, like we see with lines of longitude and gave up! Seventh lane bends the opposite way at Athir, no way is it following any curvature of the planet, it seems to follow the curve of the eastern coast line. Same with the sharp turn in the third lane from Althain Tower to Cildorn, which is almost horizontal in direction rather than vertical. Even that close to the North Pole it seemed strange it would go across Instrell Bay like that if it was following the curve of the planet. Lines might run north to south but it seems more than marker stones and Paravian ruins can make them bend. And it seems the lane flux positively spirals in certain protected locations, but we will have to wait for Janny to better explain that mystery.

I have my doubts an energetic map would tell us where the Paravians were hiding, Sethvir would have found them by now if it was that easy. :-)

   By Janny Wurts on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 11:29 am: Edit Post

The Lanes are ELECTROMAGNETIC, and the flows and currents follow the features that conduct the energy, not straight lines...

   By Annette on Tuesday, January 18, 2011 - 06:03 am: Edit Post

Janny are the ley lines straight? They always seemed to be since something was in direct alignment? And how do the ley lines fit in with the lanes and channels across latitude? Are they all part of the same energetic map?

Another question was concerning the mystery in the middle of the map, next to Araethura. Is there a marker stone just within the western boundary about 2 thirds of the way down (second mountain down on the inside), or is that just my imagination. None of the other mountains on the map seem to have that little extra next to them. Thanks. :-)

   By Janny Wurts on Tuesday, January 18, 2011 - 10:41 am: Edit Post

We are talking about Athera's flux currents; yes?

On the mystery in the map:


If you are with the Good Reads discussion (having a good time over there!) THAT is the newly minted the emoticon for what's called an Authorial Duct Tape Moment...yeah, I've had to use it alot!

It means, the words forthcoming will take you there.

   By Annette on Tuesday, January 18, 2011 - 05:55 pm: Edit Post

In Perils Gate when Dakar attempts to find out what has happened to Arithon after Jaelot's guardsmen capture him, the scrying is interrupted. Dakar's explanation was that they were, "currently due east of Rockfell in direct line with the ley that crosses the paravian circle at Ithamon."

In Traitor's Knot another ley is mentioned by Arithon as running through Halwythwood "We're in the free wilds too near Ithamon, bang over the ley that runs through Thembrel's Oak and flows across Caith-al-Caen." Are the ley lines the same as the channels that run across latitude and the lanes, or are they something else? Do the ley's run in straight lines, because these two seem to be straight.

And can an empty watercourse still carry the flux current or does it have to have water. I was just wondering if the empty Sevenir riverbed was part of the current energetic map.

Pity about the marker stone, but with a river and a line of mountains I had the third lane going along there any way. Going straight through the Scarpdale grimward did not seem a good idea, which is how I noticed that little mark on the map at that point in the first place. The far more interesting squiggles a bit further down always attracted my attention more.

   By Annette on Monday, December 23, 2013 - 05:44 am: Edit Post

Another question for Janny, related to her original reply to Hellcat's question on the inheritance of the royal gifts.

After 5,000 odd years and flowing through all those s'Ffalenn children, and being the 1,504th Teir's'Ffalenn after Torbrand, did Arithon get the same virulence of the gift as Torbrand, or any previous sole heir of the lineage? Or after being spread out and and then confined to one again, over time do the royal gifts become stronger.

   By Janny Wurts on Monday, December 23, 2013 - 02:01 pm: Edit Post

Hi Annette, read the appendix in Traitor's Knot, or Stormed Fortress (depending if you have the Voyager HarperCollins edition, or the Meisha Merlin one).

It explains the inheritance of the royal gifts; the virulence of them depends upon HOW MANY OFFSPRING ARE LIVING - and not all will inherit, (necessarily) equally - the Fellowship would select the one with the strongest trait (which would also follow character).

IN the case of a last survivor - they get the ENTIRE LEGACY with no dilution possible.

   By Annette on Monday, December 23, 2013 - 05:39 pm: Edit Post

Thanks for the answer Janny. So no stronger than what Torbrand had.

I wondered since the clan talent seems to get stronger, with the struggle to survive and being thinned out to the strongest survivors, which is then passed on to the future generations. So thought maybe royal gifts might also have been affected over time, if they had also suffered a similar persecution, over an extended time.

   By Janny Wurts on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 11:22 am: Edit Post

The two are not the same animal, not at all.

   By Annette on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 04:35 pm: Edit Post

Thanks Janny, just checking what had and had not changed from Torbrand to Arithon.

And I am going to sneak one in you might not answer. Where was Torbrand born?

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